Abortion

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Re: Abortion

Post by kappa99 on Wed 31 Mar 2010, 7:46 pm

Yeah the woman has to carry it and its "stress" but its still the mans child too.

The woman has no care or love for that child, she wants rid of it. The man doesnt., He has a bond, feelings and love for it.
If its the other way round and the woman wants it, and the man doesnt, why is it fair that the woman can keep it?

Im not saying the woman should have to take to do with the child, my position is if the man wants it and the woman doesnt,t he man should solely be responsible for the child.

If the woman was that desperate not to have a child, she shouldnt be having sex because no contraceptive is 100%. If you want to play with matches, make sure you can handle the fire.
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Re: Abortion

Post by chris_dreads on Fri 02 Apr 2010, 3:04 am

Niamh wrote:I'm pro choice, except when abortions are used as contraceptive. I've known people that have had sex without protection, haven't taken the morning after pill, then go for an abortion when they realise they're pregnant. That, right there, is fucked imo.
People should be responsible for their actions before considering an abortion.

Cant disagree with any of that, great point. Abortion is definitely a taboo subject and even thinking of having an abortion 30-40 years ago would have got you thrown into an asylum because you're thinking of "killing your own child".

Myself I am pro-choice, however im in the same mind as Kappa with men's rights in this one. A child should never ever be used as some form of weapon in an argument over a relationship and men should at least have a say in whether someone aborts their child or decides to keep a child just to spite him and gain CSA money, if it were used in any other way its fraud

Do you think however that Abortion has became more generally acceptable due to a lot of people these days starting to have sex when they are a lot younger? I'm guilty of this myself but it was not uncommon for people to lose their virginity around 22-25 about 20 years ago and it was mainly with the person they married.
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Re: Abortion

Post by kappa99 on Fri 02 Apr 2010, 3:20 am

Definetly. Kids are being turned into adults far too quickly. For me, it starts with how sexed up a lot of todays pop music is, and how demeaning to women hip hop/urban videos and songs are-boys think they can get away with it, girls think they have tobe like the naked woman on TV.

Americanisation has a lot to answer for.
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Re: Abortion

Post by chris_dreads on Fri 02 Apr 2010, 3:22 am

kappa99 wrote:Definetly. Kids are being turned into adults far too quickly. For me, it starts with how sexed up a lot of todays pop music is, and how demeaning to women hip hop/urban videos and songs are-boys think they can get away with it, girls think they have tobe like the naked woman on TV.

Americanisation has a lot to answer for.

You also have things like chav culture aswell. Babies are suddely like a fashion accessory with names like kayano or destiny, its a crime to humanity
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Re: Abortion

Post by apap3rplat3 on Fri 02 Apr 2010, 8:51 am

kappa99 wrote:Definetly. Kids are being turned into adults far too quickly. For me, it starts with how sexed up a lot of todays pop music is, and how demeaning to women hip hop/urban videos and songs are-boys think they can get away with it, girls think they have tobe like the naked woman on TV.

Americanisation has a lot to answer for.
Eh you can blame it one America and products from it, but really it all lies with the person themselves. I mean, I know this is a over-used response, but no one is forcing them to believe/listen/watch any of that. If people are that easily influenced, well that's their problem. It's not like Britain was a wholesome, moral high place and then America came along and tainted everything.
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Re: Abortion

Post by apap3rplat3 on Fri 02 Apr 2010, 8:56 am

But actually for abortion itself, I'm rather torn. If it's rape, then they should definitely have the option. Part of me feels that if abortion was illegal, then that would make people try to be more careful about having sex and it wouldn't be as rampant as it would be with abortion. It kinda makes their actions have consequences, and people don't need to be fucking everyone they meet. But also, I feel like it should be that person's choice, as having a baby would be terrible for them and they wouldn't do a good job, and putting it up adoption isn't a great way to stary its life. It's really something I'm very split on, although I probably lean closer to having it legal.
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Re: Abortion

Post by Joely on Fri 02 Apr 2010, 11:42 am

To me it seems better to have an abortion rather than bring an unwanted child into the world, who probably won't have a very good life if the parent(s) can't or don't want to care for it properly.

But then like Niamh and Jess said, some people take it too far and have too many. They should try their best not to get pregnant in the first place. But then accidents do happen sometimes.
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Re: Abortion

Post by the prodigy rule on Fri 02 Apr 2010, 12:44 pm

Abortions should be totally social acceptable, and completley free on the NHS. Even when you do get slutty girls who get pregnent every other week, they should still be able to abort as many babies as they need to. Keep the population down for really stupid people, y'know what I mean?
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Re: Abortion

Post by Elemental on Fri 02 Apr 2010, 4:13 pm

Both parents should have to agree for a child to be aborted (excluding rape of course), and if the case is something along the lines of the woman wants it aborted the man wants to keep it he should also have to prove he is capable to raise the child himself through means of securing an income etc etc and vice versa if the woman wants it.
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Re: Abortion

Post by Sophiee on Fri 02 Apr 2010, 11:24 pm

I think this is a tricky subject. I do think that if the man wants it kept but the woman wants an abortion then perhaps the guy should be able to have it, but the woman has to go through carrying a child she doesn't even want, having to alter her life for 9 months. But then again, she got pregnant, but accidents can happen.
I would say I'm pro abortion, if the child would be unloved or perhaps brought up in terrible conditions, or is a result of rape then abortion is fair dos I think. And also if tests show the baby will be severely disabled and the parents can't afford it.
But then there's the idea of folk just being stupid and not using contraception and just getting their kids aborted cos they can't be arsed. Which is just ridiculous.
Like I said, very tricky way of trying to argue this subject.
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Re: Abortion

Post by kappa99 on Fri 02 Apr 2010, 11:43 pm

apap3rplat3 wrote:
kappa99 wrote:Definetly. Kids are being turned into adults far too quickly. For me, it starts with how sexed up a lot of todays pop music is, and how demeaning to women hip hop/urban videos and songs are-boys think they can get away with it, girls think they have tobe like the naked woman on TV.

Americanisation has a lot to answer for.
Eh you can blame it one America and products from it, but really it all lies with the person themselves. I mean, I know this is a over-used response, but no one is forcing them to believe/listen/watch any of that. If people are that easily influenced, well that's their problem. It's not like Britain was a wholesome, moral high place and then America came along and tainted everything.

It was actually. Look at Britain, the way people acted and spoke and behaved until we got filled with all this nonsense on TV, radio, and print. Sex sells, and America is the vendor.
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Re: Abortion

Post by Niamh on Sat 03 Apr 2010, 6:15 am

kappa99 wrote:
apap3rplat3 wrote:
kappa99 wrote:Definetly. Kids are being turned into adults far too quickly. For me, it starts with how sexed up a lot of todays pop music is, and how demeaning to women hip hop/urban videos and songs are-boys think they can get away with it, girls think they have tobe like the naked woman on TV.

Americanisation has a lot to answer for.
Eh you can blame it one America and products from it, but really it all lies with the person themselves. I mean, I know this is a over-used response, but no one is forcing them to believe/listen/watch any of that. If people are that easily influenced, well that's their problem. It's not like Britain was a wholesome, moral high place and then America came along and tainted everything.

It was actually. Look at Britain, the way people acted and spoke and behaved until we got filled with all this nonsense on TV, radio, and print. Sex sells, and America is the vendor.

Kev... do you know anything about the Victorian era? Haha.
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Re: Abortion

Post by apap3rplat3 on Sat 03 Apr 2010, 9:29 am

What? America did not soley invent the radio, TV, or print. TV and Radio were sort of "group efforts" if you will, and print (with moveable type) was invented by Gutenberg, not an American. And sex, sex has been around since the first sexual reproductive organisms existed (they weren't American btw). Everyone played a part in this, don't try to make it seem like America sent porno mags and cuss words to Britain and all morals were lost. And also to blame people's lack of morals on TV, radio, and print is kind of ridiculous. Of course they have played a role, but print has been around for a while, and it wasn't Americans who just decided to print "immoral" things for fun. I may not think America is amazing, but I strongly dislike when people wrongly blame it for things. Perhaps this should be a new debate thread though.
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Re: Abortion

Post by LeeLee on Sat 03 Apr 2010, 10:15 am

kappa99 wrote:Look at Britain, the way people acted and spoke and behaved until we got filled with all this nonsense on TV, radio, and print. Sex sells, and America is the vendor.

Although I wouldn't really blame America for it entirely, I can't think of anything else to blame. I'd love to live back when you knew your neighbours, and everything seemed more innocent.

I also know a few young kids who have American accents, from watching so much American shit.
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Re: Abortion

Post by kappa99 on Sat 03 Apr 2010, 6:47 pm

When your 12 or 13 and all you see on TV is black dudes on speedboats making a fool of plastic women and saying how good you feel to use and abuse them, of course your going to copy it.

If someone famous tells a young kid pretty much anything, theyl do it.
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Re: Abortion

Post by Niamh on Sat 03 Apr 2010, 10:53 pm

LeeLee wrote:
kappa99 wrote:Look at Britain, the way people acted and spoke and behaved until we got filled with all this nonsense on TV, radio, and print. Sex sells, and America is the vendor.
Although I wouldn't really blame America for it entirely, I can't think of anything else to blame. I'd love to live back when you knew your neighbours, and everything seemed more innocent.

Seemed being the operative word.
Also, I don't see what this has to do with abortion.
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Re: Abortion

Post by julyweezer on Tue 06 Apr 2010, 11:37 am

Its a tricky subject, and I think rather similarly to religion, is going to be one where everyone has their own personal opinion, and won't change it.

I would say I was pro-choice, but I think every case should be judged on its own merits, and not a blanket rule for all. If a woman has been raped, then she should be able to get an abortion, as she has had no choice in the conception of the baby. I'm a firm believer in people being aware of the consequences of their actions, and I do not think that abortion should be undertaken lightly, as a method of birth control. I imagine that some girls have an abortion and do not realise how psychologically damaging it can be. You read about some girls having multiple abortions because they forgot ttheir pill or didn't use a condom and it does prove a good case for sterilisation of some particular human beings, who don't engage brain before acting.

I don't think I could personally have an abortion, only if I'd been raped. Even if the pregnancy was unexpected, I would love and get attached to that child straight away!

Someone mentioned earlier making abortion illegal, but if that happened we would go back to a time of backstreet abortions, and really horrendous things.

As an aside, when I was in Year 10, we had a lady from a pro-life charity come to talk to us (I went to a Catholic school), and as part of the presentation she showed us the, how shall I phrase this, results of an abortion. I have to say, as a 14 year old, that image is now ingrained in my brain, and can truly say it was one of the most harrowing experiences of my life.
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Re: Abortion

Post by will on Mon 06 Feb 2012, 10:10 am

Pro-choice. But I wish people were a lot smarter with practicing safe sex.
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Re: Abortion

Post by Bess on Mon 06 Feb 2012, 11:03 pm

I personally could never have an abortion (unless I was a raped but that's a whole different kettle of fish), but that's because I've always wanted kids.

HOWEVER, I am pro choice. But what I am against is how late into the pregnancy women can have abortions. Some people wait until they're like 17 weeks or something, which is wrong in my opinion. Some women have abortions at the same point in the pregnancy some babies are actually BORN and can surivive. I think the cut-off point should be 12 weeks maximum.

Also agree with what Niahm said about how dumb fucks use abortion as a form of contraception. "Omgz I'll av a shag witout a johnny n it don't matter coz I can get ridz if I get knocked up" - fuck off and die if you have that attitude!

I saw on the news the other day that a private clinic could advertise abortion on TV. I don't agree with that, purely for the reasons above. Silly kids will see that and think it's like buying a CD - piss easy. And they'll think it's suddenly okay.

As for the father's right...that is such a tricky one. I agree for the most part that the father should have a say. However, what if a woman sleeps with a guy she doesn't know properly, gets pregnant by accident and then finds out he's a bit of a nutter, and he's saying she should keep the child? It is really a hard one.
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Re: Abortion

Post by aprilMCC on Tue 07 Feb 2012, 8:02 am

ChumbaWumba wrote:
I agree that if a guy wants to keep a child but the woman doesn't, the guy should be allowed to look after the baby rather than the women having 100% choice on whether it enters the world or not. Sure they go through hell in the process but it's a small price to pay if they don't want to be involved in the child's life after. I know for sure that if I ever got someone pregnant I would look after the child rather than suggest she get an abortion, no matter how it would effect my short term plans. I've always said I want kids and if i'm stupid enough to make the mistake of getting someone pregnant i'm gonna make sure that I accept the consequences and learn from my mistakes. The thought of having a potential life prevented, that I helped create (inadvertently or not) would be with me for the rest my life :/ Along the line when I do have kids that are expected, that 'what if' scenario would crop up I think, the whole 'what would it have looked like? what would it have grown up to become? etc etc'.

Sorry Chamba but I really don't like that wording. Going through nine months of constant mood swings, nuts cravings, deprivation ( things like smoking or drinking or even having coffee), having to be on constant watch for signs of danger or change in the child and so on, can hardly be called a small price to pay. People die from giving birth. What would you say if you forced a woman to have your child and she ended up dying because of it, or what if both her AND the baby died? Pregnancy is so much more complicated then it's made out to be. I'm taking a class in uni all about human development and such, and let me tell you it scares the crap out of me every time I even entertain the thought of ever having a child.

Don't get me wrong now, I'm all for men having a choice in the matter but like someone said, all you have to do is have sex with someone else and you can have another child. I do get that there could be a link already between father and child though, which is why if it were me I'd go through with having the baby just for their sake. Besides, who knows how you'll react when you actually see the baby. Having that kid could turn out to be the best decision you ever make. The problem is you just dont know when you first find out. All I'm saying that things seem to be a lot simpler through a man's eyes. (not saying it is, that's just my interpretation from what people are saying)

All in all, I believe abortion shouldn't be allowed as a contraceptive measure but in major cases where the baby may cause more suffering or be forced into living a life that could possibly put them in danger then it should be allowed.

Also on the subject of Americans and selling sex, frankly European tv shows promote sex a lot more then the ones over here do. Sure you see a lot of pretty ladies dressed like skanks over here but your tv shows a lot more graphic content. At least the ones I've watched so far.
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Re: Abortion

Post by leeburgess on Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:45 am

Me and Hollie have been discussing this a bit lately, ya know, incase etc etc. And it's the worst fucking conversation ever, I hate it.

But I'm not gonna go talking about our personal feelings about it on this forum, don't think it's the right place.
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Re: Abortion

Post by joebarnes on Wed 08 Feb 2012, 5:56 am

Imagine a little Burgess hardcore dancing around the place.
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Re: Abortion

Post by Charn on Wed 08 Feb 2012, 6:25 am

Niamh wrote:I'm pro choice, except when abortions are used as contraceptive. I've known people that have had sex without protection, haven't taken the morning after pill, then go for an abortion when they realise they're pregnant. That, right there, is fucked imo.
People should be responsible for their actions before considering an abortion.

I don't know what I'd do if I was pregnant at this age. I always think 'Oh, I'd have it aborted, I'm not ready...', but then I think of people that can't have children of their own, the fact that aborting is stopping a future life... I'm a 'what if' type of person, thinking about what the child would've grown up to be like.

This all the way, I couldn't speak to one of my friends for months because she had an abortion after sleeping with someone and not using anything because they 'couldn't be bothered' (this was a few months into the pregnancy also, because she 'couldn't be bothered' to get a morning after pill either). I just don't understand how people are capable of doing that, seeing the whole situation as a joke because to me, it's playing with life. Of course accidents happen, people aren't financially and/or emotionally ready, and women are raped leaving them in difficult situations, abortion is different in that case. Bringing a child into the world and into an environment where one or both parents don't treat it well because its 'unwanted' can be damaging pyschologically, which is something that could be prevented with abortion.

I've always said if I got pregnant, no matter how old I am, I'd keep it. I wouldn't be able to handle the fact that I stopped a possibly amazing person from having a chance at life, but I suppose not ever being put in that sort of situation, I wouldn't really know what I'd do. I'm not emotionally mature enough to deal with a kid, and would probably have some sort of breakdown, having to delay or completely give up everything because of a child. Because of this, I just find it better for myself not to have casual sex with several different people etc...
As Niamh mentioned, there are plenty of people out there who can't have kids of their own, deserving people who would do anything to have a child of their own and it makes me sad that there are so many people who take advantage of abortion and use it as a form of contraception. As an unplanned child, who my mother (thankfully) decided not to get rid of, I appreciate the beauty of bringing new life into the world a little more. I just wish people would be more careful.
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Re: Abortion

Post by Jaaakkkeee on Wed 08 Feb 2012, 11:31 pm

If a woman doesn't want to keep the baby, tough shit for the guy. Sure, he might have had a slight bond to it. But nothing everlasting. It's cruel to force a woman to go though labour and pregnancy if she isn't ready for either. You want a kid so bad? Shag someone who will keep it.

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Re: Abortion

Post by orwellaintdead on Wed 08 Feb 2012, 11:49 pm

Jaaakkkeee wrote:If a woman doesn't want to keep the baby, tough shit for the guy. Sure, he might have had a slight bond to it. But nothing everlasting. It's cruel to force a woman to go though labour and pregnancy if she isn't ready for either. You want a kid so bad? Shag someone who will keep it.

This. I never got the concept of putting a life of a foetus (a bunch of cells) over the woman carrying it. Strange.
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Re: Abortion

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